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January 10, 2008 10:31 AM,
Audrey_H said...
January 10, 2008 10:56 AM,
Dain said...
I'm sure they have a good fragrance or two, and the names charming, but their legal practices disgust me. According to the information in The Non-Blonde's post, they've been doing this quite a lot, including pushing decanters off ebay; their practices strike me as fairly vicious. The nerve of using a L'Artisan nose for using the word "peace"!
January 10, 2008 10:59 AM,
Dain said...
*ahem*
The names are charming...
The nerve of suing a L'Artisan...
January 10, 2008 12:13 PM,
Colleen Shirazi said...
Yeah, I heard about the "Peace" thing. It sounds ridiculous to us, but it's possible that, in that business, it's not as ridiculous as it would seem.
Perfumery does strike me as a business where there is a lot of idea theft, where there are millions of dollars at stake. Particularly now...because the "niche market" is relatively new.
Even a few years ago, I would have gone to Nordstrom or Macy's or what have you, and spritzed whatever was on the Givenchy counter or Chanel or Dior. And that's it. I would have had to choose whatever I liked best from that selection, or else choose nothing at all.
Now, because of the Net, I don't do that. Now I try etailers first, based on what buzz I've seen about them on blogs and boards. If a house is relatively new, it has to be something of a...war...now, to see who's going to survive, who is going to establish themselves right now. If you can't do it, if you can't catch on, the odds are good your house will tank because of the sheer amount of competition.
Well I don't know, I've never tried Bond No. 9. The one scent I've seen the most positive reviews about is Saks Fifth Avenue. But my impression is they're creating basically aggressive perfumes, sort of the 1980's style, which you probably either love or hate.
January 10, 2008 12:31 PM,
Dain said...
I'll agree that copycatting is incredibly pervasive in the beauty industry, but it's not the juice itself that was copied, that, I think, has some virtue. Names are rather petty, unless there is a flagrant violation.
January 10, 2008 1:54 PM,
Colleen Shirazi said...
The whole case may be thrown out...I think it is more a test than anything else.
Say I am marketing a perfume called whatever that Bond scent was called, Scent of Peace. The hardcore perfume nuts know it's a Bond No. 9 scent called Scent of Peace, but everyone else has vaguely heard of a perfume with the word Peace in it. So they Google "peace perfume" and pop up references to my perfume and to the other guy's perfume, by default, because they are both current perfumes with the word Peace in them, made by artisan or niche perfumers.
If all of the raves were for my perfume, it doesn't matter. It would be just as easy for the consumer to choose the other, similarly named, perfume.
I don't see it as necessarily a bad reflection on the company. Ultimately it reminds me of Lotus suing Quattro Pro. Those two programs really were identical...the issue was, can you copyright those particular aspects of a program? And you couldn't. Lotus lost the case.
January 10, 2008 2:04 PM,
NYC Perfumista said...
In response to standard actions regarding a Bond No. 9 trademark infringement, Ms. Zorn has personally waged war on us by Internet and by telephone.
For the information of those who support her based on these postings, etc., we thought it only fair to publish the following document. While waging said war, she sent this letter to the attorneys of Bond No. 9, declaring her “peaceful” resolution. She has, in essence, committed the very offense to which she claims (without merit) Bond No. 9 has affronted her.
Bond No. 9 is a small, entrepreneurial company run by one woman who spends a lot of time and money protecting it—her life’s work—and the scope of this company includes her trademarks. As a small business owner, and given the significant portion of her budget required to secure the names and phrases that are essential to the success of her business, she strongly defends them all.
The creative spirit of Bond No. 9 is copied every day by various companies, large and small, and we protect our rights in all cases. Laurice encourages everyone to be creative and to protect their ideas.
Two Springs ago she had the idea to launch a Peace fragrance at the United Nations and donate to UNICEF for that first year. Since 2007, the donations have been to Seeds of Peace (http://seedsofpeace.org), and Laurice continues to donate for Peace. The Scent of Peace is a top selling fragrance which allows us to donate a large amount of money to charity, and we're very pleased
January 10, 2008 2:16 PM,
Dain said...
That definitely proves your point, Colleen. Niche perfumery depends on the internet.
January 10, 2008 3:35 PM,
Colleen Shirazi said...
I was thinking, "It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear." lol
Ultimately this will be decided in court, one way or another.
January 10, 2008 3:47 PM,
Dain said...
I just looked around the web and there is quite a lot of furor over this, and Bond has responded quite aggressively over the matter. I feel they have a right to defend themselves, since I myself have voiced very strong opinions. However, these opinions are not going to change simply because of a press release.
For the record, I have only smelled Chinatown, and disliked so strongly I never wished to smell another, so above review is for that particular perfume only.
Nevertheless, the unusual dependence of name over product, and the fact that they are targeting very, very small, independent and amateur perfumers (it was not L'Artisan, I was confused by the capitalized Artisan on The Non-Blonde) speaks volumes. If Bond No. 9 is, among other things, very creative, small, and extremely generous, then their actions show otherwise. Thus far, they have not gone after firms bigger than they are.
What if someone were to call a perfume Pax?
January 10, 2008 4:07 PM,
Colleen Shirazi said...
Pax wouldn't matter. I'd wager at least fifty percent of people would not know pax means peace. looks snotty
It is interesting.
http://parfumemoderne.blogspot.com/2008/01/say-goodbye-to-peace-on-earth.html
I really don't know how to put this, but if Liz Zorn were intending to get her company on the map, she's already done it.
January 10, 2008 4:16 PM,
Dain said...
I love the internet. [dances a jig]
January 10, 2008 4:53 PM,
Gail S said...
It they try to name something Pax, poor old Angelina will have to sue again! Unless maybe she actually learned something from the Shiloh incident...
January 10, 2008 6:38 PM,
chayaruchama said...
Colleen-
We haven't met- but you seem like a logical person;
Liz is NOT like that , at all.
Far from it.
That's why the irony here is immense.
I just bought a bottle.
If it's like the rest of her stuff, it rocks.
It IS a dog-eat-dog world.
Shame, really...
I love dogs.
January 10, 2008 9:28 PM,
TheLipstickPageForums.com said...
Well, again, the concept of suing over something like "peace" or "Shiloh"...makes more sense if you're associated somehow with this word or name. Perhaps because of the Internet, where information is widely conveyed in a split second, with no editorial control...there is more of a concern with intellectual property. I would see it as more of an attempt to define what intellectual property is. With a new medium, you're going to have new laws.
I didn't think Ms. Zorn did that on purpose. That would be a stretch. :) I do think the collateral publicity from the whole thing could be seen positively. Before today, I had never heard of this line.
--Colleen, too lazy to log in
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January 10, 2008 10:31 AM,
This post has been removed by the author.
January 10, 2008 10:56 AM,
I'm sure they have a good fragrance or two, and the names charming, but their legal practices disgust me. According to the information in The Non-Blonde's post, they've been doing this quite a lot, including pushing decanters off ebay; their practices strike me as fairly vicious. The nerve of using a L'Artisan nose for using the word "peace"!
January 10, 2008 10:59 AM,
*ahem*
The names are charming...
The nerve of suing a L'Artisan...
January 10, 2008 12:13 PM,
Yeah, I heard about the "Peace" thing. It sounds ridiculous to us, but it's possible that, in that business, it's not as ridiculous as it would seem.
Perfumery does strike me as a business where there is a lot of idea theft, where there are millions of dollars at stake. Particularly now...because the "niche market" is relatively new.
Even a few years ago, I would have gone to Nordstrom or Macy's or what have you, and spritzed whatever was on the Givenchy counter or Chanel or Dior. And that's it. I would have had to choose whatever I liked best from that selection, or else choose nothing at all.
Now, because of the Net, I don't do that. Now I try etailers first, based on what buzz I've seen about them on blogs and boards. If a house is relatively new, it has to be something of a...war...now, to see who's going to survive, who is going to establish themselves right now. If you can't do it, if you can't catch on, the odds are good your house will tank because of the sheer amount of competition.
Well I don't know, I've never tried Bond No. 9. The one scent I've seen the most positive reviews about is Saks Fifth Avenue. But my impression is they're creating basically aggressive perfumes, sort of the 1980's style, which you probably either love or hate.
January 10, 2008 12:31 PM,
I'll agree that copycatting is incredibly pervasive in the beauty industry, but it's not the juice itself that was copied, that, I think, has some virtue. Names are rather petty, unless there is a flagrant violation.
January 10, 2008 1:54 PM,
The whole case may be thrown out...I think it is more a test than anything else.
Say I am marketing a perfume called whatever that Bond scent was called, Scent of Peace. The hardcore perfume nuts know it's a Bond No. 9 scent called Scent of Peace, but everyone else has vaguely heard of a perfume with the word Peace in it. So they Google "peace perfume" and pop up references to my perfume and to the other guy's perfume, by default, because they are both current perfumes with the word Peace in them, made by artisan or niche perfumers.
If all of the raves were for my perfume, it doesn't matter. It would be just as easy for the consumer to choose the other, similarly named, perfume.
I don't see it as necessarily a bad reflection on the company. Ultimately it reminds me of Lotus suing Quattro Pro. Those two programs really were identical...the issue was, can you copyright those particular aspects of a program? And you couldn't. Lotus lost the case.
January 10, 2008 2:04 PM,
In response to standard actions regarding a Bond No. 9 trademark infringement, Ms. Zorn has personally waged war on us by Internet and by telephone.
For the information of those who support her based on these postings, etc., we thought it only fair to publish the following document. While waging said war, she sent this letter to the attorneys of Bond No. 9, declaring her “peaceful” resolution. She has, in essence, committed the very offense to which she claims (without merit) Bond No. 9 has affronted her.
Bond No. 9 is a small, entrepreneurial company run by one woman who spends a lot of time and money protecting it—her life’s work—and the scope of this company includes her trademarks. As a small business owner, and given the significant portion of her budget required to secure the names and phrases that are essential to the success of her business, she strongly defends them all.
The creative spirit of Bond No. 9 is copied every day by various companies, large and small, and we protect our rights in all cases. Laurice encourages everyone to be creative and to protect their ideas.
Two Springs ago she had the idea to launch a Peace fragrance at the United Nations and donate to UNICEF for that first year. Since 2007, the donations have been to Seeds of Peace (http://seedsofpeace.org), and Laurice continues to donate for Peace. The Scent of Peace is a top selling fragrance which allows us to donate a large amount of money to charity, and we're very pleased
January 10, 2008 2:16 PM,
That definitely proves your point, Colleen. Niche perfumery depends on the internet.
January 10, 2008 3:35 PM,
I was thinking, "It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear." lol
Ultimately this will be decided in court, one way or another.
January 10, 2008 3:47 PM,
I just looked around the web and there is quite a lot of furor over this, and Bond has responded quite aggressively over the matter. I feel they have a right to defend themselves, since I myself have voiced very strong opinions. However, these opinions are not going to change simply because of a press release.
For the record, I have only smelled Chinatown, and disliked so strongly I never wished to smell another, so above review is for that particular perfume only.
Nevertheless, the unusual dependence of name over product, and the fact that they are targeting very, very small, independent and amateur perfumers (it was not L'Artisan, I was confused by the capitalized Artisan on The Non-Blonde) speaks volumes. If Bond No. 9 is, among other things, very creative, small, and extremely generous, then their actions show otherwise. Thus far, they have not gone after firms bigger than they are.
What if someone were to call a perfume Pax?
January 10, 2008 4:07 PM,
Pax wouldn't matter. I'd wager at least fifty percent of people would not know pax means peace. looks snotty
It is interesting.
http://parfumemoderne.blogspot.com/2008/01/say-goodbye-to-peace-on-earth.html
I really don't know how to put this, but if Liz Zorn were intending to get her company on the map, she's already done it.
January 10, 2008 4:16 PM,
I love the internet. [dances a jig]
January 10, 2008 4:53 PM,
It they try to name something Pax, poor old Angelina will have to sue again! Unless maybe she actually learned something from the Shiloh incident...
January 10, 2008 6:38 PM,
Colleen-
We haven't met- but you seem like a logical person;
Liz is NOT like that , at all.
Far from it.
That's why the irony here is immense.
I just bought a bottle.
If it's like the rest of her stuff, it rocks.
It IS a dog-eat-dog world.
Shame, really...
I love dogs.
January 10, 2008 9:28 PM,
Well, again, the concept of suing over something like "peace" or "Shiloh"...makes more sense if you're associated somehow with this word or name. Perhaps because of the Internet, where information is widely conveyed in a split second, with no editorial control...there is more of a concern with intellectual property. I would see it as more of an attempt to define what intellectual property is. With a new medium, you're going to have new laws.
I didn't think Ms. Zorn did that on purpose. That would be a stretch. :) I do think the collateral publicity from the whole thing could be seen positively. Before today, I had never heard of this line.
--Colleen, too lazy to log in
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