The Lipstick Page Forums Beauty & Fashion Blog . thelipstickpage

August 22, 2007 12:57 PM, Colleen Shirazi said...

Ohhhhh...no, that's about thirty years out of date...back then women were, sometimes literally, still the property of their husbands.

That's when women were supposed to fret about aging. Where's the social status in owning an old car, as opposed to a brand new shiny one?

It was assumed that you--the woman--would accomplish nothing intellectually or professionally in your life. Your brain would not develop, the way a man's would, as you got older. Hence, where a man would become more intelligent, more accomplished, more respected, higher status--you would simply age.

That's where all the patronizing comes from. They're leaving out...a lot. What women actually do in the twenty years between youth and middle age, besides sit in a chair, staring at the wall, while their skin loses tone.

I don't buy into any of that crap myself. In fact I think you should wear less makeup as you get older. It's akin to trying to cover up acne with makeup, it looks fake.

But sunscreen is your key beauty product...and one of those de-hagging eye creams. And a daily multi-vitamin. Getting enough vitamin A prevents squinting. Biotin keeps your hair from getting too thin. Exercise keeps off the telltale "middle aged spread." It's all prevention.

I'm curious about that Lipstick Queen now. Even though it's hard for me to believe a high-end lipstick company would stoop to "I just found a great website" spams.

August 22, 2007 1:11 PM, Dain said...

Personally, I'm with you. I expect only to get better with age; guys my age don't appreciate me very well. [looks rueful] It helps because I don't expect to "lose my looks". Or my figure, for that matter. But for the majority of women, no matter how succesful they are, I think it is still a major issue. I know girls my age who are terrified of getting old, and if anything, they're the ones who are particularly successful. Women (as a general entity, not specific individuals) care about aging, that won't really change. The profits of the skincare industry are built on that. It doesn't really matter if you are allowed to earn money and be your own person, it's still something they care about.

August 22, 2007 1:24 PM, Dain said...

O, and Lipstick Queen, I am looking at some samples I received now. I've no use for the Saint formula, not because they're bad but because I have no use for sheers overall because I'm sick of them. The Sinner formula is reeeaaaalllly pigmented! You can feel the pigment, there's so much of it. The color is really true: they sent me Wine Sinner, which is really a soft cool red, but no fuschia inclinations whatsoever, and if a blue-red won't turn, the others are certainly not likely to. It's totally matte, and yet comfortable to wear. It's lovely, I wonder if it'd be a good replacement for my GA #46, seeing as it's LE?

August 22, 2007 2:14 PM, Colleen Shirazi said...

Yeah, it's funny, it was occurring to me yesterday...that the concept of paying women less...I used to think it was simple, that it was "someone has to clean the floor." I mean, for the past fifty years, women have been going to the same schools as men, getting the same degrees as men...is there any other explanation, as to why they are paid less?

Then the thought occurred...as long as they're paid less, they will be treated unfairly, and as long as they're treated unfairly, they will be better consumers. They will buy more.

I highly disagree that a disproportionate (compared to men) concern with aging is a female thing per se. It is an underpaid thing. On some level, women are trying to compensate for something.

What you're thinking of as successful...tends to be young women. Am I right? They don't have kids yet. Before you have kids, your income may well be on a par with a man's. The gap comes when you have the kids, because you don't get compensated for raising them. Either you pay someone else to do it (which is not cheap, it's not subsidized in the U.S.) or else you lose whatever money you would have made, doing it yourself.

It's an illusion of being successful; it's good as long as you don't have kids.

As Spike Milligan once said, "All I ask is the chance to prove that money can't make me happy." If we were paid the same, would we really have this inexplicable concern with aging?

August 22, 2007 2:35 PM, Dain said...

Hm, well you see, I don't think that the age concern is really about money. I think it's about sex. Because women are most fertile at a certain age, and then at a certain point, they aren't anymore. It's not like that with men, though they too decline. A man can become more attractive with age, because he might have more to offer in terms of security to his mate, an option that wasn't available to women because of inequality. Women have an expiration date. If women are paid more, it equalizes the situation because a woman can be seen as desirable beyond her reproductive success, and it diminishes the power that men have, but... I don't think it's the cause, more a solution. After all, the capitalist system has only been around for a few hundred years, while sex has been around... for millions.

In any case, I dare say my original article wasn't intended to compare men and women in the first place, only the young and old. : )

August 22, 2007 2:44 PM, Dain said...

Hm, I see, I think you misunderstand me. It's really much simpler than that. When I see women who are afraid to be old, they are afraid to be ugly. Sometimes it has to do with men, sometimes it doesn't, just like sometimes women dress for men, sometimes they don't. I think you're right about what you are talking about, but it's not what my article is talking about, because it is not concerned with gender inequality at all, just trying to address the fear of aging, period, that one sees so often in women.

August 22, 2007 3:07 PM, Colleen Shirazi said...

Eh...you could see it entirely the other way around. Women keep their sexual potency their entire lives, where men's potency declines with age. How many kids do you really need?

To the best of my knowledge, there were matriarchal societies before there were patriarchal societies. I find it hard to believe, in a matriarchal society, that women would have the same concerns about aging. It doesn't make logical sense.

You've got a valid point in that you should change your products as you age. I totally agree with that. You can get away imo, with using cheaper products when you're young. Somehow it all just works...or you can use no products when you're young, that works too. In fact too much stuff overwhelms the natural beauty of youth.

I've found the biggest change for me...perfume. Some scents now smell too young on me, where those other scents, that I know I wouldn't have been attracted to before, now smell right.

Colored eyeshadow now looks better on me. When I was younger, I wouldn't have bothered. Now I can use a little extra color.

Blush is good (again something I wouldn't have bothered with before). I'm still pondering concealer. I hate the idea of stretching the skin under my eyes. It would have to be something that involves minimal rubbing. That's the key.

August 22, 2007 3:36 PM, Dain said...

Just thought I'd like to add this pic from the Sartorialist:
http://bp2.blogger.com/_qjpwnPW4c1o/RsVMhv4lKjI/AAAAAAAAB3s/e9OhQ9mqV0g/s1600/Wht%26Green.jpg

August 22, 2007 3:55 PM, Colleen Shirazi said...

Yay! I like the Sartorialist, one of the first sites I ever saw pictures of ordinary people and street fashion.

Yeah...men these days are also concerned about aging, more than before. It is also because people are living a lot longer, they stay strong and healthy longer too. What I resent is an implication that we're supposed to be more concerned than men appear to be--

It's much like the classic management example of pay equity. They say that people care less about what other people in their field are being paid, and more about what the guy next to them is being paid. If you're working shoulder-to-shoulder with someone else, and you find out that guy is being paid more than you, you're not going to like it.

I suppose it'll all even out in the end, one way or another.

August 22, 2007 7:57 PM, cmm said...

Interesting!
That pic from Sart. has got to be my favorite one EVER! I can only,only hope my hair greys like that.

Anyhoos, I'm feeling that the red lipstick I so love is begining to look ridiculous on me, at my age. I know, I know, but I looked at some of my pictures and just thought "ugh. I look creepy."

Dain, dear, color-queen, any good recs for me for something Nude?
I'm thinking I'll just start to focus on playing up my eyes and lashes rather than the dark red lips.
Thanks!

August 22, 2007 10:16 PM, Colleen Shirazi said...

Wha'????? I thought you looked great in that red lippy.

My hair is already grey but not like that. It's like a bunch of silver grey strands mixed in with my (long-lost) real hair color.

August 22, 2007 11:31 PM, Dain said...

Carol, I agree with Colleen! That red lippie is great on you! I think red is a "mature" look anyway, one that can look awkward on the very young, though not always. Maybe it's how you are wearing it? A clear, soft pink blush may soften the look, and I like pewter shadow with red lipstick... the red alone can look stark, but pewter is just rich enough, but still very neutral.

I also like deep reds with a lemony-gold. I have a good picture of this look, I'll post it.

But as for non-reds... hmm... I don't wear nudes, I don't favor them, I don't know why, just feel like I need more color. If I were pressed to use one, I like a sheer shimmery lilac because it cancels out out lip tones pretty well. A milky pink works too.

The shade I've been obsessed with lately is a pure rose (not pink brown, the kind of color that makes you think of English-rose beauties from Jane Austen novels). It's not as bland as nude, it can be quite rich, but it's much softer than red or berry... Hey, btw, have you tried NARS Gothika? I know we can wear the same lipsticks really well, and that's my favorite.